On the 26 July 2007, Chase Buchanan was refused permission to convert the old Koblers’ Bakery building from A1 retail space to A2 office space.
No additional details are available at the moment.
On the 26 July 2007, Chase Buchanan was refused permission to convert the old Koblers’ Bakery building from A1 retail space to A2 office space.
No additional details are available at the moment.
Comments
Yeh! Seriously good news. Now, perhaps, the landlord will deal seriously and fairly with potential shopkeepers.
David bertram on 2007-07-30 08:52:36 +0000You realise that the landlord is Chase... They might appeal the decision, sell the place to who knows or allow another Superdrug in... as well as rent the place to a baker or small independent shopkeeper.
Peter @ stmgrts.org.uk on 2007-07-30 09:02:14 +0000Ah. I was thinking of the previous landlord! As to "letting Superdrug in", while we can both object to a change of use and advocate what kind of shop we'd like, in an age of private propery rights it really is up to them what kind of shop opens. There's no god-given right to a baker, welcome though one would be.
The good news is that Armstrongs are due to open on 6 August!
David bertram on 2007-07-30 10:09:23 +0000Am sure I am not alone in having received this e-mail.
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Please let me introduce myself my name is Nick Jones and I work with Park hill Investments ltd. Park Hill recently acquired the above company from Kimberley Foster. The freeholder of 115 St. Margaret's Road, Twickenham, TW1 2LH is Mason Woodard.
I have noticed from the Richmond council website that you objected to Chase Buchanan's application to change the use of the property.
You will be glad to hear that Chase Buchanan has withdrawn their application. We have taken your comments on board and are now trying to source a retail tenant that will be more in keeping with the St. Margaret's area such as a bakery.
The basement premises are extremely large and would not be of interest to any occupiers of the shop. We have therefore made an application to convert the back section of the basement into a stylish contemporary 2 bed flat.
As mentioned the application has only just been submitted but should be available to view on line in the next week or so and as new owners of the building we would very much like to get on with the surrounding residents and welcome any constructive comments.
I look forward to hearing your comments.
Yours sincerely
Nick Jones
Fourways House, 121 Nelson Road, Whitton, TW2 7AZ Tel: 020 8898 5554Fax: 020 8898 5556 Mason Woodard Ltd. Registered in England and Wales. Company Registration Number: 4629081Registered Office: Bentinck House, Bentinck Road, West Drayton, Middlesex UB7 7RQ
David bertram on 2007-07-31 14:48:35 +0000I got one too. I find it highly amusing, and a little insulting, that the landlord has only now come out of hibernation. Surely, it would have been a little more community minded of them to engage before their defeat, rather than after.
Personally, I can see a fabulous opportunity for them to have a bakers upstairs, and a restaurant downstairs, perhaps. I doubt we need another cafe, but Brula how it used to be when it first started would be jolly nice to have back.
Nigel on 2007-07-31 15:32:43 +0000I agree with the comments above from Mr.Cannings, about the landlord.
I am going to object to this proposal. I think the landlord should rent the shop out first. It would be a shame if a baker wanted the premises but needed the basement too.
Rent the shop first, then if the shop doesn't need the basement then tackle this issue.
mary on 2007-07-31 22:21:16 +0000What a sensible comment from Mary. If a baker was interested in this shop (let's hope there is one) surely the basement will be needed for the ovens etc.? I believe that's where they were before.
McCreddie M (Mac) on 2007-08-03 17:37:58 +0000The Officer's report is now posted on the Council website. Loss of retail shopping as a % of total commercial frontage is given as the reason for recommending refusal - not "withdrawal" by CB, Mr. Nick Jones - of the application.
David bertram on 2007-08-06 14:01:25 +0000Koblers now has a "Shop To Let" sign in its window. Time for all the frustrated entrepreneurs to come forward again....
David bertram on 2007-08-07 09:14:20 +0000When talking to other customers in Armstrongs (the newly opened butcher shop) the general comment was 'all we want now is our baker shop back' New owner of Koblers PLEASE NOTE!
McCreddie M (Mac) on 2007-08-07 17:44:31 +0000The issue will remain the rent that the landlord wants, versus the amount a bakers can afford. I hear that the annual rent (and that's before the rates) is about £32,000 for that shop, which is a lot of loaves of bread.
Koblers closed because of a rent increase, and an increase to nothing like that level, as I recall. Someone may remember the figures, although I seem to remember that it was a raise from £16k to 20k that killed it.
Either the landlord has to be prepared to accept a lower rent (and the valuation on their recent purchase would have been based on something like 10x the expected annual rent, so that makes a big difference), or we need a very posh baker like Paul - It's difficult to see a small local baker making money when you take into account the initial refurb costs, and this rent, plus the rates.
It may take a few more years of no tenant to push the rent down. Or perhaps we all have to pledge to spend the money we spend on bread and cakes in Tesco to a baker. That would do it...
Nigel on 2007-08-09 14:12:46 +0000In response to Nigel's email of 9th Aug:
- If the Landlords are asking too high a rent (and I believe £32K p.a is too high - a year or two back Franklins were quoting offers in excess of £18k p.a) then they won't achieve it. I don't think any multiples are crying out for a unit in St Margarets, particularly one of this awkward shape. Superdrug certainly don't seem to be doing adequate trade for the size of their unit and it wouldn't surprise me if they closed down.
- I believe that back in 2002, Mr HJ Kobler was the registered freeholder of the property, so it would be untrue that the bakery closed because of a rent increase (unless the occupier was not Mr Kobler or a related co.).
- While it would be very nice to have a baker, I believe such trade would find it difficult to pay even say £25k p.a without some ancillary eat in facilities.
- Net of any recovery from the 2 unmodernised flats over, I would guess that the owners will have paid significantly more than the figure you estimate.
mike isaacs on 2007-08-10 18:55:03 +0000Agree re. Superdrug's trading - they haven't done anything yet to implement the permission they got months ago for aircon, which must have been intended to cover the summer period. That failure to invest speaks volumes.
Speaking of which, development of Parvinu is conspicuous by its absence. Has the rise in interest rates and the economy's cooling provoked second thoughts? Or was the business model never realistic? Or have all the conditions imposed to protect local residents made it unviable?
David bertram on 2007-08-10 21:33:20 +0000Superdrug have apparently never reached their monthly target income during the time that they have been trading here. When they took on the lease they worked on the principle that wherever Tesco went was also a very good venue for them. A somewhat lazy attitude, which has proved to be a poor business decision in this instance. I suspect that the site might well be the focus of the next major planning issue once their lease is terminated.
Harry Jacobs on 2007-08-11 09:17:17 +0000According to Franklins' website (the agent letting the property), the rent being asked for is £22,000 pa.
Maeve Good on 2007-08-11 12:13:54 +0000Just to respond to Mike's point, it is a new freeholder, who I believe purchased the property after the "sale" of the two flats, so in effect all they bought was the bakery
And if you want to see how they expect to make money, go to:
www.ukplanning.com/richmond/showCaseFile.do;jsessionid=4A2AB995A404D570DD58286BCE883315.wam1?action=show&appType=planning%20folder&appNumber=07/2588/FUL
Interestingly, following up from Maeve's point, it is listed at £22k, appears to be under offer, and has the basement in the particulars!
Nigel on 2007-08-16 17:11:22 +0000115 St Margarets Road, the Bakers shop and Bakery.
A new planning application is now posted on the Council web site.
Alteration and part Demolition of existing Structure. Change of Use of former Basement and Bakery to form 1 2 Bedroom Flat.
This application reminds me of the "St Margarets Store" at 296 St Margarets Road, a convenience store for many Years complete with all facilitys such as toilet, kitchen and store room. The store closed when the owner of the store sold up (retired) and when the shop was put up for let it had no facilitys left, no toilet or even a cold water tap. What jogged my memory? A name mentioned in the first paragraph of Nick Jones email posted by David on 31st July.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-08-18 01:19:24 +0000"St Margarets" has disappeared from the street index of the planning website were I found the new application for Koblers. The application ref. No is 07/2588/FUL to view the scanned documents.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-08-18 01:46:31 +0000My initial reaction to the information from Nigel was "good news!" On reflection, considering the new planning application, only a small part of the existing basement will be part of the shop fronting St Margarets Road. Neither this part of the basement or the shop itself will retain any of the 2 fire escapes they have at present. ( If planning permission is granted fo the proposed 2 bed flat fronting Bridle Lane.)
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-08-19 13:23:38 +0000So, is this to be opposed on the grounds of threatening the viability of the ground floor unit as a shop? Sounds tenuous.
David bertram on 2007-08-20 11:40:24 +0000I do not believe this is a tenuous argument. Tesco would not be able to function without its rear storage area. The St Margarets Stores at 296 St Margarets Road are not viable because the rear of the ground floor there was converted.
If this plan goes ahead I believe the situation will be similar.
Trevor Whittall on 2007-08-20 14:48:09 +0000OK, I've objected. Any others care to?
David bertram on 2007-08-21 13:03:17 +0000David, I will send my objection in a few days time once I have properly digested the application 07/2588/FUL. (Drawings, Agents Letter, Design and Access Statement and in particular the photographs of the rear of the application site. As I had not involved my self with the chase bucanan application I visited the documents and drawings of 07/1816/FUL and found some omissions that can be seen clearly on the photographs submitted in support of application 07/2588/FUL, ie. a door leading out on to the roof from the actual rear of the shop fronting St Margarets Road (rear elevation photograph) and double doors close to the main building leading out to the bin area (photograph of south elevation). The statement made by the applicant of 07/1816/FUL is incorrect with respect of trade refuse (Form TP1 Part 3 Section 9) there would be no access to the bin area as "existing". This will also apply to the application 07/2588/FUL and all trade refuse will have to be deposited and collected in St Margarets Road as there would no longer be access to Bridle Lane from the shop and its remaining basement. I believe the devil is in the detail and it will take a few more hours for me to finalise and post my objection. I have noted Crown Road is now renamed St Margarets Road.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-08-22 02:40:28 +0000The more angles for opposing it, the better.
David bertram on 2007-08-22 14:27:12 +0000I have walked down Bridle Lane to look at the rear of the application site today. I found that my assumption that there are double doors in the side elevation (south) was wrong. It follows that refuse is not taken of the premises at this point. I apologise for interpreting the Photograph wrongly. Refuse from the bakery must have been stored behind the garage door for collection as I can not envisage refuse would have been carried up the stairs from the basement and carried through the shop onto the pavement of St Margarets Road for collection. Can any one remember by which route refuse left the Bakery? An ex employee of Koblers perhaps?
During my visit I noted that the doorway leading from the rear of the shop onto the roof of the bakery and 2 of the 3 windows overlooking the roof from the rear of the shop have been bricked up recently.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-08-22 17:14:17 +0000Another note from Nick Jones. Sounds like good news. I noticed in recent days that the door to the shop was open and opeople were looking around. ******************
Dear David Bertram, Ref: Shop Premises at 115 St. Margaret's Road, Twickenham Further to my recent letter concerning the planning application by Chase Buchanan I am pleased to report that we have now agreed terms to let the shop to L'Amandine. Some of you will be familiar with L'Amandine, they run a small chain of Continental Patisseries. L'Amandine will occupy the ground floor shop premises and the front one-third of the basement area. We are hoping that all of the legal formalities can be tied up in the next 6 weeks, so we might see the shop operational again by the end of September. We will continue to provide you with updates as matters progress. We are delighted to have secured L'Amindine as a tenant and I believe that this letting goes a long way to meeting the local residents requirements. Please feel free to contact me if any of you should require any further details. Yours sincerely Nick Jones
David bertram on 2007-08-29 12:19:11 +0000Another note from Nick Jones. Good news (?)
****************
Dear David Bertram, Ref: Shop Premises at 115 St. Margaret's Road, Twickenham Further to my recent letter concerning the planning application by Chase Buchanan I am pleased to report that we have now agreed terms to let the shop to L'Amandine. Some of you will be familiar with L'Amandine, they run a small chain of Continental Patisseries. L'Amandine will occupy the ground floor shop premises and the front one-third of the basement area. We are hoping that all of the legal formalities can be tied up in the next 6 weeks, so we might see the shop operational again by the end of September. We will continue to provide you with updates as matters progress. We are delighted to have secured L'Amindine as a tenant and I believe that this letting goes a long way to meeting the local residents requirements. Please feel free to contact me if any of you should require any further details. Yours sincerely Nick Jones
David bertram on 2007-08-29 12:21:08 +0000Still only 2 objections - Seems David and I are alone on this one
Nigel on 2007-09-05 18:01:25 +0000Nigel, I delivered my letter of objection to planning reception Friday 31st August. Scanning documents into the system appears to be a bit slow at the civic centre. Having the carrot dangled in front of us (A patissery with access via the shop door only) might lead some to think that the loss of the remaining 50% of the retail premises is acceptable. I hope my letter will appear before the weekend.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-09-05 22:20:40 +0000Nigel, my letter of objection is still on the case officers (Connor Corrigans)desk and might not be published until he has determined his recommendation to either grant permission or refusal.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-09-14 16:48:59 +0000Nigel, my letter of objection to application ref: 07/2588/FUL has now been published 28 Days after it was received by Development Control.
Slow turning wheels that require oiling???
Gerhard Schellberg on 2007-09-29 13:28:30 +0000It was disgusting that the bakery was ever shut down in the 1st place, I feel that the landlord has acted in a soulless capitalist way, forcing one of the few small businesses in our society to shut down. Soon St Margarets is going to become a street of estate agents, pretentious "health" shops, and endless cafes.
Ellie on 2008-01-16 13:51:43 +0000I see the applicants are back again: 08/0044/FUL
There's a scanned document in which they set out how they believe they have addrsssed previous concerns...
David bertram on 2008-01-25 12:13:43 +0000Some of my previous concerns have certainly been addressed by this new proposal.
How?---By restricting the footprint of the new scheme to be entirely outside the main building, not using 50% of the actual basement and creating a Right of Way from Bridle Lane to the 50% of the basement not required by the new proposal.
To compensate for this the applicant has added an extra storey over part of the ground floor. I see this as the construction of a 2 storey flat roofed house on a rather small footprint and in my opinion this is not acceptable in any location.
The speculation Nick Jones made in his post of 29/08/2007 that legal formalities in respect of the lease for the Cake shop be completed within 6 weeks and the shop opening in September was somewhat wide of the mark. 5 Month later there is no indication that the shop is let.
The main concern of a number of St Margarets residents is not addressed, ie the loss of retail space, and remains an issue. The proposal to construct a 2 storey residential building on the site of the single storey bakery is raising a new concern and should be resisted even though it appears that the scheme was designed with the help of the planning department.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2008-01-27 15:26:36 +0000my nan and grandad owned the shop for many years. mr and mrs betts. does anyone remember them.they bought it from kobler himself. i have many happy memorys of the bakery.no one makes a cake like my grandad!!
nicola gardner on 2009-11-12 14:17:11 +0000